Many plugins not working with Osclass 3.3.2

[s51]

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Hello friends of Osclass


@tomshaft
One place you write something must be done to relieve Osclass team,
elsewhere you write that you are a K.I.S.S. man,
and things should be done away from this forum, so as not to distract the team,
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These are all something that is true ... But then ... you suddenly turn on a dime,
And write e.g. decisions must be left to the team, = even more work to team you want to free up
You write e.g. and where, when, team leaders, etc. = far far away from what K.I.S.S. is all about.
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What are you suddenly become afraid of ?
It does not take anything away from your personal project, - trying to save all the old plugins
Keep in mind, this is genuine onest help to Osclass (mostly to Daniel who pulled the heavy load for a long time)
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@teseo
I like your point with the anarchic perspective here in forum, - and it is definitely something not to be done,
if we are trying to help. Super good point ... Therefore I would really like to ask you about,
(in the direction we are debating here) what is your definition of a developer.
Keep in mind, this is genuine onest help to Osclass (mostly to Daniel who pulled the heavy load for a long time)
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@design
GitHub is excellentl - Yes
But Osclass need more a kind of mounting/superstructur, whose main task here and now, is Old-School software testing
(not in competition with otherwise - just pure onest helpfulness)
Because if we jointly could have weeded out all repeat the mistakes, - then especially the forums, in the long term
could be much more structured, and through free up resourses for what it's about = Osclass as progressive software.
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>>will these fixes ever get fixed regardless where we test it -github or otherwise?
I,m sure there is a solution also for this,
it just has to be appetizing for both the Core team - and of us who would like to help Osclass forward
Keep in mind, this is genuine onest help to Osclass (mostly to Daniel who pulled the heavy load for a long time)
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@SmaRTeY
I do not know if we can find ground, - we are agree on the broad lines, - but I think it will require a lot more energy,
telling high and low, - it is good old-fashioned testing before final release we want, partly to make Osclass more interested,
but mostly to get rid of irritation moment, with a damn good product, - which unfortunately always have those silly little errors.
are my assumptions correct ?
Keep in mind, this is genuine onest help to Osclass (mostly to Daniel who pulled the heavy load for a long time)
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Regards.:/ s51 
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PS: Jay
Onest I mean Damn, - like in Damn.Brücke  - ha,,ha,,ha,, 

[SmaRTeY]

Ok, since we have been creating/released fixes for both themes, plugins and core it seems to me we do not need 'much' to make it a start. All core fixes we will hand over to dev team to implement. This should be a fix for all users of OsClass so not hanging on to core fixes forever but release asap.... there is a x.x.x version for a reason.

Same goes for theme fixes that are part of official components.

Same goes for official plugins.

All we really need is somebody within dev team willing to help community get osclass fixes in the core/theme/plugin.

WE the community helpers can get organised anyway we want, if there's a simple easy way let's not start a discussion but just do it? I also have no objections to the use of github bt like I mentioned, if every 'group' has ONE real php/js developer than he/she can also help out with the github setup/update so the others can just hand over their work.

Groups can test eachothers work on an environment s51 has suggested, github can be used for code library available for OSC dev team as well. Best of Both worlds?

 

[tomshaft]

Glad to see others interested in my suggestion and wish all great success.

Tom

[teseo]

Therefore I would really like to ask you about,
(in the direction we are debating here) what is your definition of a developer.

Technically, what could be read here:

"web development" usually refers to the main non-design aspects of building web sites: writing markup and coding

But that is not really what I meant in my previous post, I think SmaRTeY hit the spot: "Community helpers", everyone with some experience,  having an interest in the development of Osclass beyond his/her personal current needs, with a minimum set of skills on any related field (coding, designing, thorough testing...) and willing/able to put some time and effort to the task. I think by now we know each other enough.

I am myself hyper-busy with my own work, but even from a strictly selfish perspective, for me this is an investment in my own future, so I would participate as far I may able.

To me, first thing is to have a proper space, then we may start to get into all these things, of course we should see how we organize ourselves, what are the best mechanisms to get things done and what not.

I have experience in forum management, so if no other offers him/herself to see to that task... No need for something too fancy, just some place where we may able to talk without distractions.

Regards

[SmaRTeY]

I feel strongly all decisions to be left to the core devs.
If this is to happen, where, when, team leaders, etc.

Tom, I don't think it is said people are going without.
I think we're waiting on _CONEJO to come up with dev team thoughts on this.

The fact people are progressive is not a bad thing, is it?
There's nothing decided yet but you seem to have thrown in the towel all of a sudden, why? 

[SmaRTeY]

@teseo, that is exactly what I meant, keeping it simple means first we have to have some commitment from people in the forums so we can look at 'grouping'. Imo it would be good if we are able to have at least one 'true' php/js dev (somebody who actually has more than a little code experience in this field) per 'group' and a minimum of two people but might as well be a max. of two people if that works best.

Further, one 'regular' environment where those 'groups' can implement and test on a 'OOB' OsClass 3.3.2 install.

If testing turns out to be OK we can hand it over to OSC dev team to put it into good use ie. do a review on the fixes that were made, test themselves, implement and release.... no harm in that just extra hands on delivering more quality.

Not much more needed besides a simple effective way to communicate as a helper group (pw forum or something) and eachother email/Phone/whatsapp/im whatever the smaller 'team' prefers. It's about getting results and actually making sure these end up in the OSC downloads..... nothing else really as far as I am concerned.

[tomshaft]

@Teseo;

I have experience in forum management, so if no other offers him/herself to see to that task... No need for something too fancy, just some place where we may able to talk without distractions

I've posted previously I have the smf setup which you can administer if you like.

Also have the domain (Well, sub-domain) set up you can use anyway you want.

@SmartKey,
When I put forth the suggestion in this thread I had forgotten about personality divergence.
I believe I had mentioned something in a pm to you some time ago.

Tom

[SmaRTeY]

Ok, so we have a forum and a test environment available within maybe the last two hours we have been discussing. Go figure how fast we can have the first fixes in place for OsClass team!

Both are fine with me, one person who helps making use of github and we are set to go.

Let's focus on OsClass and a little less on eachother....

@_CONEJO, if you're reading, let us hear your thoughts?

[teseo]

@Teseo;

so if no other offers him/herself to see to that task...

I've posted previously I have the smf setup which you can administer if you like.

Also have the domain (Well, sub-domain) set up you can use anyway you want.

Sorry, I didn't notice that. I'm not overly eager to do that myself precissely,  so that's fine by me, you or any other person taking care of that.

Further, one 'regular' environment where those 'groups' can implement and test on a 'OOB' OsClass 3.3.2 install.

I think web space wouldn't be a problem, seems we have s51's proposal, Tom's and myself I have an underused Linode VPS if needed.

If testing turns out to be OK we can hand it over to OSC dev team to put it into good use ie. do a review on the fixes that were made, test themselves, implement and release.... no harm in that just extra hands on delivering more quality.

For me would be ideal that OSC dev team would participate in that forum, but then again we can't ask of them more than they already do, a lot. So we should be ready to work with what we have and try and think what ways would be more effective to help them to achieve our common goal.

Regards

[SmaRTeY]

teseo said it all I think, not much more to add and really would like to know who to count on so we can go with the next step. 

Unless there are other things we have forgotten to think of? 

@teseo, regarding dev member on other forum, no need I think, we should know whom to contact for our 'updates' and agree with dev team those fixes are taken serious and are thankfully added to a new version after review so a 'fix release' can be released quickly keeping dev team focussed on core improvement/changes.

[tomshaft]

My thoughts.

This must not be mine, yours or ours but belong to Osclass with core Dev's having for lack of a better term, ownership.

Devs of course can be members/moderators/administrators but not expected to be participates as such. They already contribute enough.

I very strongly disagree with have a sterile clean install environment. I disagree with the concept of having "A" theme installed and working with "A" plugin. This is what is causing many of the problems the teams hope to correct.

A place void of "interruptions" is needed. A simple install of SMF solves this.

A place to congregate the updates and fixes for an item such as a theme or plugin is needed. Github solves this.

The tests must be done in real life situations. Using all the different computers, browsers, hosting setups, Osclass versions still in use, etc. and the only way to do that is by US using it on our setups. The whole point is mute if done in a "clean" environment. Lost the moment someone installs something on a not so perfect environment. Core testing is and must be on many different configurations and so must the addons such as themes and plugins.

Testing also must be done with multiple and different themes and plugins installed just as it will be used in real life.

To me the end goal is to remove as many user issues as possible BEFORE anyone even knew there was one.

The teams must not be exclusive but must not be so large as to become unproductive.

Cross team membership should be promoted.

If the core devs develop this I believe after the few hiccups that will happen this can be a very useful group(s}.

Though I have nothing to contribute so no reason to be an actual member of a group (Maybe core finale release testing), I and am sure we forum members can only gain from this and you.
Tom

[s51]

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@tomshaft

There are specific rules for software testing !
But in ..VERY-SHORT.. the three main rules:

#1 Integration testing /and or/ Unit testing
** Performed by the core code writing DEV team /and or/ a ,whitebox, testing team
#2 System performance + and overall Bug and Error catch and testing
** Performed by professional testers, - who knows how the final system should work
#3 Acceptance testing
** Performed by hardcore endusers - led by by professional testers, - in groups of three
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But of course, - it is to agreements internally, - How.To.Do - by groups: #1 - #2 - #3   
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Regards.:/ s51
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[design]

So down to the dirt.
I can test in inmotion hosting and godaddy. In PC/mac
I can fix smaller errors, typos, cleanup. Though I would like to learn more, I'm sure I will as I help.
Also, I can GitHub

I only have one personal glitch. My PC settings at home will throw code at the top of the page when I click on an empty category. But I work around that using Inprivate browsing. If this is not an issue, I can help in my "free" time. Time zones an issue?

What is the end game? Are we just "fixing" what we have already?

[SmaRTeY]

Time zones an issue?

Not an issue, a plus in a sense people can follow up on eachother when the otherone is asleep dreaming about next fix 

What is the end game? Are we just "fixing" what we have already?

Yes, I think we should just start with 'something' basic like the Bender theme and a plugin (if we have two 'groups')
Also I think older OsClass versions should go out of support like every software company does so the focus will be less on old stuff and more towards the now and to be. (yes that can hurt) I think OsClass support the latest version and 1 prior to it but correct me if I am wrong.

I can test IE11, FF on windows, test on my own dutch host and on the ones provided by members in the 'team' ie. the s51 environment or a teseo / design environment. 

Personally I can do testing, make simple css changes, make simple code changes and usually pretty good at tracking down where things go wrong. I am able to come up with design solutions and I am pro documenting in code and less in documenting elsewhere unless it makes sense in order to understand a code setup. I am not so great at fixing as my dev. experience is long time ago and never web based but I am learning. I like and I need someone (positive/constructive) I can discuss things with which in the end usually delivers the best result possible

If I start something it can be hard for me to let go and it can become an obsession to me to find a fix that is not only working but also acceptable as being 'good' code.  (maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this?) hehe

[tomshaft]

I no longer know what to think. Seems there is already a few under utilized places scattered throughout the internet for this or similar. I just "found" this. Had no idea it existed:
http://dev.osclass.org/

We know about github and http://doc.osclass.org/How_to_write_a_bug_report

Looks more like an information flow problem and/or core dev time issue then a need for yet another layer.  Still think this idea would be the way to go with results posted to github and placed into next update of core/theme/plugin.

Just a comment.
Tom